TOPIC:

Big Ed you summed it about right. 

We are much better off then we were just 3 years ago. And the better we understand the ppr the better we all will be.
One item noted is the fact that fishermen were targeted against each other, and that should never be. I hope the DNR recognizes this as a mistake and looks for other ways to do this in the future
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Not sure how much money this cost the state by doing this the way the have. Money might be better off spent helping Mixsawba get back up to date.
The state of Michigan was given federal money to be used, somewhere around 30-50 million. And that only brings them back up to par with nothing new added in. Mixsawba is around 50years old and has many issues. Our equipment the same as Michigans,, requires constant up keep. The heart of Mixsawba is the bio filter. But Indiana has not tried to secure any of the federal assistance monies that are out there. So if you think that the hatchery folks are doing a good job,(and I do), then please understand how well they do it with faulty equipment. If they lose the biofilter we lose all our fish. almost all of our stock come from this hatchery.

The survey should of been held off for 1 year but down state they have another timeline. EC produced kings this past fall and in the fall of 2023 will have a return of 3 year old kings just like all are other ports will. When times are good we should spread the wealth. The meeting we should be having is how do we stock when the lake goes bad again. Maybe if we all saw that picture and kept it in front of us we all would see that we can't go back again to that way of stocking here

East Chicago should be maintained in the stocking just like the other ports. The state should not decrease areas to fish from that has access. Access is something we are losing at all are stocking areas. Not everyone has a boat and many fish from shore. They buy the same license and stamps as us boat fishermen.

When I fill out my survey I will be asking for all 3 ports to be maintained in the stocking of Kings!    Keep the status quo!

What I cant seem to understand is our DNR always basis there decisions on scientific data. East Chicago is up for being cut out with no data on a 3 year old return.  We had live swimming 2 year olds this year. There are many people that got to experience it as south shore states earlier in this thread. What is going on right now in my opinion is very irresponsible and disheartening. East Chicago being cut out of the stocking should not even be discuss worthy until at least the fall of 2023. There is so much bad information from people being thrown around mis informing people that don’t know our fishery well enough to vote that will be voting is scary. If east Chicago gets voted out it effects east Chicago whiting and Hammond fisherman. As south shore stated the fish on harbor stockings do not stage as they do in portage or Michigan city with creek systems. Sure wish we had a someone within in DNR to fight for what’s right bc Indianapolis knows nothing about our fishery up here. 

Just some food for thought. If any public access site is cut for stocking, it just puts more pressure on the remaining public fishing areas. This is known as combat fishing. At the current time we only have 3 ports for boat fisherman with fall kings and losing shore access all of the time. What's next your favorite Port or shore area?

I agree with everyone's replies with the exception of wait another year.  Anyone who deals with data regularly understands there will always be a variable that says wait another year, so it becomes a constant moving target.  Going from what Ben presented, the data they have is over 10-12 years with EC stocking and during that they had high and low times, so they have that data (although this year might move the needle a slight bit).   My question for the wait a year, is how many people's opinion on EC will be swayed?   If it is a horrible return are the EC guys going to change their opinion on it and say okay drop EC from the stocking?   If it is a good return do you think the Portage or MC people are going to vote any different (maybe a small percentage)?   

What I do agree with is that it SHOULD NOT be a popularity contest, it should go from the data but at least if EC is a viable port for some return then at least give it some percentage of the stocking.  

its too late for this year but I urge everyone to find out who the key upper management is at the DNR who decided this was the best way to go, and contact them to let them know your thoughts.   You can always go to your other govt officials if that falls on a deaf ear.   We have Ben on our side as far as the work being done for the Southend of Lake Michigan and he is doing a lot to make things better (in my short time Salmon fishing it seems at least), I just have a feeling his hands are tied in a lot of cases as well. I am not sure if he wants to chime in on any of the contacts or politics involved, but I am sure we can figure it out.

 

Dirty wrote:

Ltrain wrote:

I so planned on being there but the flu has me down for the count. Please recap the meeting

 The ER took me out.  I was looking forward to the presentations and seeing everyone.  Ugh.......
 

Hope Dirty and LTrain get better quickly, but at least your sick during the slow fishing part of the year.

One item that I am struggling with is the information that was given In this meeting, it was said that the state has been working on this for 4 years. And the fact that the people having the decision power were not in any of these meetings. You can't call that a meeting with out input. 

I find that very interesting when I realized that 4 years ago none of our ports was producing kings. None of them. For our state people to select EC and using this information makes it sound as if EC was targeted. The other info they used was old information when times were getting bad and finally when we had no returns at any of our ports. And the fact that EC now is using a different stocking spot then the old material used. If we are using science to evaluate EC are we not changing the experiment before the finale test?

We all were targeted with them using the salmon trout stamp to send their survey to. Think for a minute the other item mentioned was that the state felt that all that bought a salmon trout stamp state wide should be part of the survey,
sounds good so far correct?

So if the state feels so strongly on doing work with us in that manner, then I question why I and others do not get a chance thru survey to comment on how southern Indiana lakes should be used. There is no way they can do it responsibly unless they send it to everyone in the state that bought a fishing license. What would be the cost associated with something like that. Again if the state feels this is the best way to do this work then why isn't it used state wide?

4 1/2 years ago I asked Ben to bring Indiana into an advisory board system. It would of worked well here like it does in Michigan. We had fishermen that wanted to be part of this only to have Indianapolis squash that idea. It should be noted that the state of Indiana for their own need uses the same system, an advisory board. We are being micro managed from the southern part of the state.
It is a shame the way these last 2 meetings were set up. The folks here that have so much tied into this sport that want to see things get better did not have a chance to really be heard. The state didn't want to listen. They wanted to tell. This isn't how a good working relationship with the fishing community here is developed. It will be hard to trust again that the next meeting will be any different.

If the state cares so much about our fishery then I question why is Mixsawba being held together with bubble gum and tape. We need Mixsawba to be in the best condition possible. Now more then ever as we move into stocking 275,000 kings. I would like some reassurance that we will not lose fish because of poor equipment and poor up keep. Ask have we lost fish in the past because of a bio filter misfunctioning??? What was the corrective action taken when that happened?? How often is it a issue?? What has been the upkeep repair cost over the past 10 years compared to installation of a new bio filter??

We have a talented biologist in Ben. In many ways Ben is a untapped resource. It is a shame that the state will not let him do his job with this fishing community. And it will be tuff for the community to work with him when the state will pull the legs out of any movement forward.
I wonder now what may be next? Will there be a survey on how we should use Indiana steelhead and where and how they are stocked? How about a survey on how we should stock Coho? We should be asking questions, like does Indiana have a back up collection site for Skamania? Where is it? Does it work or does it also need state funding money to get it working again. Indiana supplies 2 other states with Skamania eggs. And our equipment is falling behind. If the state of Indiana really cared they would bring our equipment back up to par. They have no problems taking the money for 50 plus years that this fishery raises with out giving back.

 Think about what Ben said. The return at all ports have been less than 1percent. When equal stockings have taken place, the results are very similar. EC received no fish in 2019. they got a smaller portion in 2020 and had returns. In 2023 we should see the results of an equal stocking number at all ports. This is exactly why it it only makes sense to wait another year, that is plain as day.

As a last ditch effort, is it too late in this process politically, to get the City of East Chicago involved - such as possibly the mayor?  Given that Indy makes a lot of these independent decisions nowadays to everything related to fishing and hunting (and trust me, it happens in the local DNR property management levels too), would putting this stocking reduction on the radar of any of the EC politicians create any kind of PR nightmare for the Indy folks maybe?  No matter how much usage by shore fisherman or whatever the argument was, politically - taking away something from a community (even fish) usually stokes a fire.  Just throwing that out there, at least long enough maybe to buy some time and delay?  Politicians love public hearings, and love to set up meetings just to schedule when the next meeting will take place, and they could milk this out awhile.

My private take on this is I think Ben is a stand-up guy: always connected to our fishery, always posting, always available for any public communication.  I've reached out to him numerous times and his door is always open.  BUT, if his hands are tied, it is what it is.  I was at the meeting too, and he stood up there and took the bullets.  It just really sucks it's come to this.

Whaleman, you are absolutely correct. Ben is a standup guy and always for the fishermen, he is really the only voice to the down state people we have. In this case I am concerned that he maybe being forced to only putting a few options on the table that are not necessarily best for all. The mayor is definitely being contacted with the situation at hand.

KingSeeker wrote:

Big ED, think about what Ben said. The return at all ports have been less than 1percent. When equal stockings have taken place the results are very similar. EC received no fish in 2019. they got a smaller portion in 2020 and had returns. In 2023 we should see the results of an equal stocking number at all ports. This is exactly why it it only makes sense to wait another year, that is plain as day.

I am going from what Ben said in the meeting about the 10-12 year data and it having both high and low.  IF this was an actual data driven decision based on returns and such, I would agree there would be a reason push it a year,  Being this is going to solely be based on people's input; I still say waiting a year will make no difference in how people fill out the survey.  People are going to vote for the port they fish out of the most and is most convenient for them.  No use in arguing the point though since all of these decisions have been made