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I believe 168k is still a more than 2 fold increase over what we have been working with. The spring fishery we have down here is awesome. I’m looking forward to seeing the returns after a few years of sticking across 3 sites. The rotational stocking does not allow us to see the effects of multiple year classes returning together I don’t need to catch more than a few mature kings each fall to enjoy my nights out chasing them. IL has had very consistent stocking over the last decade with numbers and I’m guessing returns very similar to what we are allotted. It’s not gang buster fishing, but you pick your spots and your days (nights) and you can definitely catch a couple kings. The days of limiting on harbor patrol are probably about as likely to come back as the days of packing up a wagon and heading west to homestead.

If Indiana doesn't stock the St. Joe, then Michigan must stock it and those fish should eventually make it up to Mishawaka through the fish ladders. So perhaps I should have just asked "how many kings are caught in Indiana's portion of the Joe?"

southshore wrote:

I believe 168k is still a more than 2 fold increase over what we have been working with. The spring fishery we have down here is awesome. I’m looking forward to seeing the returns after a few years of sticking across 3 sites. The rotational stocking does not allow us to see the effects of multiple year classes returning together I don’t need to catch more than a few mature kings each fall to enjoy my nights out chasing them. IL has had very consistent stocking over the last decade with numbers and I’m guessing returns very similar to what we are allotted. It’s not gang buster fishing, but you pick your spots and your days (nights) and you can definitely catch a couple kings. The days of limiting on harbor patrol are probably about as likely to come back as the days of packing up a wagon and heading west to homestead.

John glad your happy with things as they are,,,, others aren't. If your happy with the stocking as is,, then no need to try to make improvements right? As far as rotational stocking, in 2016 we stocked 3 ports with more fish then the 168,000 eggs we now have. You were at the stocking meeting so you should remember that 2017 we then stocked Michigan City. Shouldn't we have had 2 year old fish and 3 year old fish in Michigan City for 2019??? I wonder how many people feel as you do John? The spring fishery you mention is something that has been good since the beginning. And if we didn't stock anything that spring fishery you talk about would look the same. I don't think you were around in the 70's, but if you took one item like predators on smolts, then you would understand how many more predators those young smolts have to deal with. Add in clear water as the lake is and predators have a big advantage now. We haven't had many other changes/ or tried things that may work to offer improvements. Many of us would like to see proactive changes when and were we might be able to. What are those proactive changes? Well that is something that need to be discussed by all. Not by me, not by you, by all of us. Last year Ben had 2 scheduled stocking meetings for the public to attend. That was a first. It shouldn't be a one only. Those discussions need to continue, with everyone having a chance to get clarification on items and be able to ask questions. Working together for improvements to our fishery is optional. Open discussion is part of the beginning stage that may lead to make improvements.

Not many people are happy fishing fall kings and spending days getting skunked bc we have no fish but will fight scream and kick to have all three ports stocked even though it’s not enough fish to make a return in one port.......we need to do what is best for the state and indiana fisherman not push agendas of what benefits me or you or anyone else. Starters we need more fish if we can’t get those fish changes need to be made bc what we are doing and have been doing is not working. Time has proven this......

Something needs to change but I know it's complicated. The little Chinook that are used to feeding near the surface in hatcheries have to run the gauntlet of terns and seagulls to reach the lake after smolting. The near shore area has become a predator pit for 3 3/4" smolts that will need to spend their early life stage in the lake foraging near shore for bugs and what have you until they are large enough to eat whatever size alewives are available. At 3 3/4" they are the same size as a standard trolling spoon. In years past before the mussel invasions we didn't have the large drum capable of eating a #4 J plug or Magnum sized spoon. I'm sure they enjoy their share of little Salmon snacks. Drum are nocturnal and capable of eating 24 hours a day. Some think they are fun to catch, others edible, I see them as part of the problem.
Next problem that seems to be getting worse is the proliferation of protected cormorants feeding along the shoreline. Capable of diving to depths of 30+ feet and eating 1lb. of fish a day. We witnessed a flock of well over 500 birds in 50' of water just east of MC in July. We have cell phone video of them in the water. 500+ lbs of fish a day to feed this group is a lot of fish and a shortage of alewives in clear water makes the little Salmon easy targets.
Drum, Seagulls, Terns, and Cormorants all have to eat and when alewives and perch are scarce along the shoreline where do little silver fish hide? .
Then there's the Elephant in the room. Lake Trout. This season the vast majority of large trout caught on our boat were suspended and eating alewives. There's no doubt in my mind they eat small Salmon.

I thought maybe we could find a way to help the Chinook better survive using net pens. I've lost confidence that net pens alone would be enough to make a difference given all the problems these fish have to deal with. I suspect as bad as it seems it may be worse than we think.
For decades I lived for the fall Chinook run and would never vote to get rid of them but something needs to change or I expect we will continue to get what we get by doing what we are doing.
Given Indiana's low survival rate an increase in numbers would be a start.

I’d be as happy as anyone to see kings coming back to IN in numbers. I’m bummed we’re not going to get the full 225k we were supposed to get this spring. I find it frustrating that the loudest voices in the room are always a few guys that only fish from boats. I listen, I read, I fish. I fish from a boat, I fish from the piers and break walls, I fish the stream. I fish for salmon. I fish for perch. I fish for bass. I fish for trout. I fish for whitefish.

I think it’s awesome that our DNR is having a discussion with us and IS LISTENING to us. From the sounds of things last spring, I got the impression that scrapping the kings altogether and using the space in the hatchery for more steelhead was what the managers believed was the best strategy.

I have no answers, but I would like to point out, all the kings in all the Great Lakes are stocked at about 4 inches long. All the lakes have predators lurking nearshore and in the streams where salmon are planted. In many of those places the water is far cleaner than it is here in Indiana in early May. Indiana was about the last place in the Great Lakes to be invaded by cormorants. Guys were getting arrested for shooting them in Lake Ontario before there were a couple dozen. Green Bay, Northern Lake Huron all had corm problems for decades. In most of those "other" places, the returns of their stocked spawners is much greater, like 3 or 4X, on average than what's been happening in Indiana. Consider this then think up some answers.

Mike I think you just just answered the question. Let’s think about this Lake Huron stocks 3 ports with kings they are getting returning fish in a crashed lake....I’ve heard upwards of 3 percent and that’s supposedly a crashed lake where their fish live majority of their life on Lake Michigan. with the same predator problem we have. Indiana has less then a half a percent return......Michigan most ports are slightly better then our return....Wisconsin well gets returns....what do all of the places that have good returns have in common. They are stocking huge numbers in a single port meaning 250k fish in each spot or more. More fish that go into the same area the more can survive the predator pit. Don’t get me wrong there are a lot of other factors that come into play and other things that may help but in my opinion it’s a numbers game with kings. The question is how do we get there.....I know I’ve been guilty of attacking Ben from time to time and I know his hands a partially tied but we need better here. Our spring fishery wouldn’t change much if we didn’t stock fish our late summer fishery doesn’t change since we have almost nothing. Steelhead are ok from time to time but it’s a small window of the year besides for the shore guys which they need something too. We need to make kings work it would change boat and shore fishing opportunities greatly. Our king stocking the way it is now is not putting any pressure of the forge base because there are not many alive. Our king stocking is figured into the science of our forge base so we need to do something that will work or at least try.

I would also suggest the USFWS give the southern end a break. We have enough Lake Trout. Their relentless pursuit of a naturally reproducing Lake Trout population at the expense of the Salmon is now successful.

Jullians reef last check is producing naturals at 72%. If a line was drawn across the lake say 40 miles south of North Point and the line went straight east to the other side of the lake, come July 15th how many lakers would be south of that line and how many kings would be south of that line?